I have lived in England for almost eight years now. And I love it. I love the English people, and I hate the way their country is being discriminated against.
The following poem was displayed in my local Land Rover independent garage. It sums up things nicely. 'Nuff said:
Goodbye to my England, So long my old friend
Your days are numbered, being brought to an end
To be Scottish, Irish or Welsh that's fine
But don't say you're English, that's way out of line.
The French and the Germans may call themselves such
So may Norwegians, the Swedes and the Dutch
You can say you are Russian or maybe a Dane
But don't say you're English ever again.
At Broadcasting House the word is taboo
In Brussels it's scrapped, in Parliament too
Even schools are affected. Staff do as they're told
They must not teach children about England of old.
Writers like Shakespeare, Milton and Shaw
The pupils don't learn about them anymore
How about Agincourt, Hastings, Arnhem or Mons?
When England lost hosts of her very brave sons.
We are not Europeans, how can we be?
Europe is miles away, over the sea
We're the English from England, let's all be proud
Stand up and be counted - Shout it out loud!
Let's tell our Government and Brussels too
We're proud of our heritage,the Red Cross flag too
Fly the flag of Saint George without risking the sack
Let the world know -
WE WANT OUR ENGLAND BACK!!!!
Author Unknown
19 comments:
Where to start?
"Writers like Shakespeare, Milton and Shaw"
Milton wrote n Latin and Italian as well as English. Shakespeare used themes and settings that weren't English, and wrote at least on play to appease a Scottish king. Shaw was Irish.
"How about Agincourt, Hastings, Arnhem or Mons?"
The English army at Agincourt was as much Welsh as English (and the longbow was a Welsh weapon adopted by the English). The English at Hastings lost, leaving the Normans to create the society whose virtues this poem claims to extol. The British army at Mons was commanded by an Anglo-Irish officer, and included troops from England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales. As did the British force at Arnhem, plus Polish troops as well.
"We are not Europeans, how can we be?
Europe is miles away, over the sea"
22 miles. I used to live further than that from the centre of London, and still be called a Londoner. Even in terms of journey time, for the population of the South-East of England, it's quicker to get to Paris than it is to get to Newcastle. The sea just creates additional cost. Also, of course, the Irish Republic is further than the European mainland as well.
"The French and the Germans may call themselves such
So may Norwegians, the Swedes and the Dutch
You can say you are Russian or maybe a Dane"
Most of those countries have regional divides that create as much division as the author of that poem would like to create in his own land. Someone may tell you they are French, but in their own country the fact that they come from Marseilles will tell them they are superior to a Breton. And vice versa.
"Staff do as they're told
They must not teach children about England of old."
But they do. At Key Stages 1-3 British history (which is essentially English history) takes up the majority of the National Curriulum.
Like I say, where to start ... ?
"Also, of course, the Irish Republic is further than the European mainland as well."
That should say 'further than England from the".
The poem neglects to mention that England's head of state is from a German family, via a line of Scottish monarchs. The Tudors, who preceded those Scottish monarchs, were a Welsh family, and the Plantagenets who came before them were French. The last truly English king dies in 1066.
Of course the English themselves are named from Angles. They emigrated to the country from Europe in the 5th century AD, and ousted the original population, whose last remnants are the Welsh and Cornish. And lets not forget that English culture is a mix of elements from the Romans (from Europe), the Saxons (from Europe), the Vikings (from Europe) and the Normans (From Europe - actually more Vikings).
The Kaptain's answered most of your points - I'd just add that Shakespeare's defintely still taught, and Milton is once you get to 17-plus. Most of the history taught in schools, apart from WW2 and a bit on the Industrial Revolution is Tudors and earlier - i.e. pre unification with Scotland.
Oh, and where do you think most of the current population of England springs from originally - they're largely German (Saxons), Scandinavian (Vikings) and French (Normans)? It's believed that the ones who were here before/during the Roman period all either intermarried with the successive invaders, or moved to the far north and west, setting in the very areas you're now complaining about.
Sorry Kaptain - you'd only got your first part up when I started typing mine!
"Sorry Kaptain - you'd only got your first part up when I started typing mine!"
It took a little longer to type and research than I'd hoped. I checked my facts as far as possible, and it took me a while to find a summary of the National Curriculum (my search engine tends to default to Australian sites :) )
Here's a thought, though. If all goes well, in a year's time I will officially be Australian. But I'm also British and, specifically, English (although my surname has Scottish origins which also go back to Ancient Greece, so how English is that?). I'm proud to be English.
Now, a year from now, should I continue to proudly flaunt my Englishness in my adopted country or, as a good immigrant, integrate into Australian society. What do you reckon, Garvan? Should I continue to celebrate and live according to the culture of my birth, or adopts the standards of the one that I now chose to live in?
By the way, Garvan, when was the last time you read any Milton, Shakespeare or Shaw?
The same question applies to the person on whose wall you saw the poem.
The last authors I read are an English former journalist who now also advocates for assisted suicide, a prolific American science-fiction author and an English writer who converted from Anglicanism to Catholicism, although it was whilst he was the former that he created one of the most famous overtly Catholic characters in fiction.
So, two out of three in terms of solid English writers for me.
Mind you, my three favourite authors, aside from the first Englishman listed above, are of, in origin (i) mixed Anglo-Irish/Scottish, (ii) American and (iii) Irish.
(Interesting point - the poem extols the virtues of Shakespeare, Milton and Shaw. Given that Shaw was Irish, that leaves us with the other two, suggesting that the English haven't produced a noteworthy writer since the 17th century. Or, at least, not one the poet's heard of, anyway.)
Regardless of antecedents, Anthony Blair said that there is no such country as England. Meanwhile allowing non-English MPs to vote on laws affecting only England but not the reverse. We now have the recent bizarre poll result where the freedom-loving Scots would prefer to remain part of the UK while the English would prefer them to wave them goodbye!
I am a Scotsman, but I think the point the general poem makes is valid. Our country and our culture (as in the UK)is being watered, dumbed down, and eroded by foreign influences. That might sound racist or xenophobic to soon, but it is a basic truth.
"Our country and our culture (as in the UK)is being watered, dumbed down, and eroded by foreign influences. That might sound racist or xenophobic to soon, but it is a basic truth."
Obviously one could only call you racist or xenophobic is you specified these 'foreign influences' and how they are watering down, dumbing down and eroding UK culture. Personally I;d ask you to give some specific examples, but you probably don't want to actually remove any doubts about your xenophobia and racism.
Better to keep your mouth shut and just have people think you are a racist xenophobe, rather than open it and remove all suspicion :)
Still, since you refer to the UK, I assume you are only interested in culture post-1701, which is about when the UK could be considered to have existed - prior to that it was two kingdoms, one puppet principality and one conquered island. After that it settled to being one kingdom, plus the other two bits. Perhaps you can tell us what date you regard as the Golden Age when 'UK Culture' was pure and unsullied by 'foreign influence'?
Examples of such forces include: mass immigration in the 1960s and 1970s, sexual "liberation" and the legalisation of homosexuality and abortion (influenced by Hollywood), membership of the EEC and Council of Europe, failure to stand up to militant Islam and support Christianity and Christian values, decline of community and community values...... The list goes on and on......
If I had to choose a golden age, it would be the 1950's, before mass immigration, political correctness, healthy and safety, the sexual revolution, and the general decline of decency and morality that went with it.
Did you live through the 1950s*? Would you like to live in a period where it was considered OK to discriminate against someone because of their race or gender? Do you think discrimination is OK?
And what's wrong with health and safety? Are you happy for people to work in environments which affect their health, and even shorten their lives? People in the 50s did.
The sexual stuff we'll pass on, as you've refused to discuss it in a meaningful way elsewhere.
But let's see. I can see that the 40s were a bit complicated, so we'll skip them. Why are the 30s not a Golden Age for British culture? Or the 20s?
*Rhetorical. I see from elsewhere that you're 27. Born in 1984, or thereabouts. In theory your parents could barely even have touched the 50s.
The funny thing is that if you look at writings from there are people saying that things are worse than they used to be, harking back to the more moral, 'better' times of the turn of the 20th century.
of course, Edwardians had their moaners who regarded the mid-Victorian era as the height of morilty, with their own era being decadent and in decline.
50 years from now, Bill's grandchildren (hypothetical) will be looking back wistfully to the beginning of the 21st century, and saying how good things were then, compared to the moral cesspit of an era they live in ...
There seem to be some interesting studies round on why people regard 50 years ago as a bit of a Golden Age. I wish I had more time to look them up.
Hollywood responsible for abortion, Bill? Please explain.
The halcyon days of the 1950'S Bill?...let's have a quick look...
Polio is in epidemic mood.
I remember that from mid 1959 to early 1961...I was admitted to a kiddies ward in a hospital wing suffering from acute Nephritis with attending renal complications...about 6 years old and pissing blood...I had been ill on and off since 1956!
I remember the pain very well but I remember far more vividly that one of my exploring expeditions...which I undertook as soon as I could walk again after three weeks of bed confinement which took me to a the long room off a corridor outside the main kiddies ward...
Row opposite row of iron lungs, filled with kids not much older then me!...about 10 of the contraptions all huffing and puffing away.
I remember that now and then a new face would appear in one of the machines mirrors which were mounted above the patient aimed backwards, no idea where the old face had gone, just that it was gone forever from my world...and so it was for just over a year.
The sound was rhythmic and out of phase...I can still here them sometimes at night when on the verge of sleep, nearly 50 odd years later not loud but insistent.
And the kids silent and morose, dead eyes and intense boredom etched into every feature.
Boys and girls come out to play!
With neither the strength nor the will to converse more then a sentence at a time before lapsing into ethereal gasping for breath.
It frightened me, the kids in the machines seemed passed fear, just tired and almost zombied...flickering eyelashes was the only outward clue that life was there mostly.
The 1950's saw Polio reach epidemic proportions, the early 60's cases started to reduce, I caught and witnessed the tail end, it was a nightmare, what the parents must have gone through is beyond belief, what the kids went through...almost bordering on sadistic barbarism albeit with the best intentions.
Bill the the 1950's was not all Pat Boone and church fêtes with the WI, it had a darker side...it was not idyllic, far far from it!
An interesting article about 'patriotic' displays in Australia:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/12705112/aussie-flags-on-cars-racist/
At least back in the 1950's kids were allowed to run around the streets without fear or being murdered or raped, people could leave their doors unlocked knowing their neighbours would keep a watchful eye, families prayed together and stayed together instead of getting divorced at the first sign of a marital tiff.
The world is in a terrible state right now in comparison. Give me the 1950s any day!
" families prayed together and stayed together instead of getting divorced at the first sign of a marital tiff. "
Is there any evidence of the former? And the latter only happened because it was harder to do - there's no evidence marriages were any happier. They were just harder to get out of.
And I'd certainly take no advice on marriage from someone who hasn't experienced it yet.
(I'm one month shy of my 19th anniversary)
Also, of course, those things you state were true prior to the 1950s.
So why the 1950s specifically?
Hi Bill,
With reagrd to evidence that humans evolved you said.
" I would then be forced to re-examine my interpretation of the Genesis account of creation."
OK. Let's assume (just assume) that such evidence were provided.
Reconsider, hypothetically, your interpretation of Genesis.
How would it differ?
(Reposted from the other thread, so you don't miss it, Bill)
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